Please no judgement.
I have a friend in prison that is currently doing time for murder of his ex. It was so completely out of character for him, he just completely snapped and their relationship was a really toxic mix altogether with both sides having anger issues and happened back in 2013. He handed himself in, and pleaded guilty and has since been in prison since 2014, working in his temper, doing all types of domestic violence and behaviour and anger courses. My concern is, my feelings have really grown for him, and I am a believer of second chances, but it was all over the media and one, I am worried what my loved ones will say and two, can it be possible that people change for the better after something like that?
Do people change or shouldnI leave this alone?
Do people change or shouldnI leave this alone?
Posted in:
Life Lessons, Relationships & Marriage, Men's Business, Relationships, Behaviour
61 Replies
Have you known him for a long time? Prior to the crime?
You aren’t one of those women who write to jailbirds are you?
Do you have kids?
Pages
No I don't write to inmates at all, I do have kids as he has been a friend and was around when my daughter was born and had helped me get through things when her dad left a week later.
You aren’t the woman with the daughter and the horses and moving from dad to mum to dad are you?
He isn’t the bikie guy with Tatts that your mum warned you about?
No that's isn't me, wrong person.
Oh thank god!
What is his sentence?
Are you willing to put your life on hold for someone you don’t even know it will work with?
Miss opportunities of finding the right one for a maybe?
Are you perhaps emotionally unavailable so this kind of situation suits you?
A pseudo relationship where you don’t have to go all in?
He’s lonely, he sees you sometimes, he has all the time in the world to think about how to woo you when you visit or write letters.
He can be the perfect man.
He’s not doing the day to day, this situation doesn’t even closely mirror real life.
All food for thought.....
I do believe people can change but I can’t advise you to put your life on hold for what may just be a fantasy that doesn’t translate to real life.
I also think if you want to risk your own neck, it’s fine, but if you have children living with you, you have a duty of care to them and the risk is just too high.
Maybe by the time he gets out your kids will have flown the coop?
Maybe stay friends and consider things when he’s finally released.
I’m trying to be open minded and non judgemental here.
Yes I have 2 kids living with me, both at home for a while. He has always been great with kids and has no child protection charges against him and has been around kids since I'd met him
His sentence has 6 years left til he gets out on parole. I am not saying yes it will work or no that it won't, he doesn't know how I am feeling at this point in time. I have continued to live my life for both my kids and I and keep moving forward each day. Thank you though that does leave me with things to really think about.
I’m not suggesting he would cold blooded hurt your kids, more of a case of you two arguing, it escalating and them witnessing dv. He obviously has a short fuse, which he won’t know if he has a handle on until he is triggered. Only takes one time to scar kids.
Kids fighting, yelling and screaming could also trigger him.
It would be too stressful for me. Even if he’s perfect 99 percent of the time, you know what he is capable of if he snaps,
I also think you may be inviting child services into your life, someone could report you and they would not be comfortable with this situation.
Good don’t let him know he doesn’t need to know and you need to get over it and move on for the sake of your kids. Wake up to yourself. Yes I’m harsh but bloody hell take the blinkers off them eyes and go find someone worthy and safe to have your kids around. He has no child charges on him but he has murdered his ex!! What are you thinking. if he didn’t murder her and get caught he would have had no charges for abuse either. As if you would even think of having your kids around him. How can you live a life with a murderer? He took away an innocent life!!!
And murdered his ex. Wake up to yourself and stay away for the sake of your kids. Would you seriously put them at risk!! he might not be the same person but he might be. Don’t even go there. Gives me chills just thinking about putting my kids in this situation.
No he didn't snap. The relationship was toxic. He's toxic. You need to run from this. All the warnings are there. Good people don't snap an d do this. Broken, abusive people do. No he wont change. Hes wired to only understand, think and respond and react that way. You ask anyone thats been there, they have an MO. They all do the same behaviours. The dv shelter has a list of possible signs. The act is this bit, where they pretend theyre not fucked up and suck you in. But you've had the biggest warning you can get. This is dangerous and just not worth the risk. Do not ignore it. At least do the victim the honour of researching beinf a dv victim. Understand how hard it is to get away from them. Understand how badly they wreck your life. Before you get into it onto a hope and a prayer.
Also get yourself into counselling to find out why your standards are so low that a guy who has murdered a partner, been in jail for 7 years and has nothing stable to contribute would pass as suitable for you in your standards.
This!
Yes this!!!
Sure, great to have second chances but this is your life. Your kids lives. Sorry how could you ever, ever be comfortable knowing that they actually killed someone? Not in a car accident etc but the sheer force required to kill someone is quite substantial. He didn't stop. He didn't pull back. He didn't hit her and got charged with assault. He killed his partner.
Yeah, probably shouldn’t date and have your children around a convicted murder. Also he still has 6 years left. You have no idea what those 6 years inside are going to do to him. I would probably speak to a professional about why your self worth is so low that you would even consider this is a safe option.
Also she may have been nasty, toxic ect BUT that never gives someone else an excuse to murder her.
I actually lived with a family many years ago in the early 90's where the dad murdered a man. Shot him and killed him instantly. He was never jailed as it was self defence after years of the family being threatened by him.
He was the utmost loveliest guy I've ever known and still is and i feel totally safe around him and so does everyone else so although the circumstances were different, a death was still committed and frustrations and anger were high with my situations case too..
So in your case, only you know if it is safe to be with him or not and the real truth behind the killing.. there are so, so many factors at play that no one on here can actually tell you yes or no.
Sounds like he did it to protect his family, not shut up his family.
Fact he was given no time as well.
But I like your alternative perspective.
She knows what he tells her, not the truth.
A woman I know was brutally beaten to death by her partner. She won't get a second chance.
The statistics of men who were convicted of violent or sexual crimes re-offending after their release are pretty high.
You only have to look at a few high profile Australian cases for perfect examples of this!
You also have to consider the fact that prisoner rehabilitation rates are pretty damn low.
Once someone crosses that threshold, I truly believe that the potential for violent fits of rage are always going to be a possibility with that person.
He may well be a nice guy but people also said that about Ted Bundy...
I think you owe it to your kids to get them to adults before going down this road.
What if your relationship turns toxic? There are no guarantees of a good relationship. Even if he has undergone therapy he hasn’t tested that therapy in real life scenarios.
If I was you I’d be getting myself into therapy.
You don’t have to have directly harmed kids to be a danger to kids. Could you imagine growing up without your mother because she was murdered??
So, someone in a toxic relationship decided to take someone elses life to end it? There is almost always another option. You leave, you just leave. People snap everyday, when is it at all acceptable to kill someone when that happens? Whether he handed himself in isnt really here or there.
I think you need to seek some professional counselling - explore why this is an option you would consider.
I would find murder a firm boundary especially adding the domestic violence that may well have lead there.
The lady that died doesn’t get a second chance... and you are already trying to reduce the severity of his actions by victim blaming...
Your not thinking rationally here. He can say anything from prison it’s time for you to stop listening.
You are minimising his crime. The victim doesn't get to have a say in whether the relationship was toxic. She doesn't have a voice. He could've walked away. He could've stopped. But he CHOSE not to. He chose to take another person's life. What happens when he is out and you two have a fight? Can you guarantee he won't snap again?
Don't do this. If you believe in second chances, get a rescue dog.
All I know is that I would NEVER put my happiness first if it potentially meant a risk to my kid's lives.
My uncle is a recently retired prison guard. Some of his stories would make your hair stand on end!
One thing he's always stood by is that you can NEVER trust the inmates who present as nice guys who just made a mistake. You know, the ones who you'd walk past in the street and think nothing of, the ones who have a pleasant disposition - In his words, they're often very intelligent, know all the right things to say and by that they can so easily manipulate people.
There's always going to be some level of danger with this man, even with all the therapy and programs in the world. You'd be incredibly naive to believe otherwise.
My ex is a lovely guy too, everyone loves him. He is also a very aggressive, angry person behind closed doors. What you see on the surface is not always the whole deal. I have always given the advice that you don't truly know someone until you've seen them angry, how they can compose themselves through anger will show you what you need to live with the rest of the relationship. You already know what this guy does when he's angry.
They don't change.
It's been proven before. You only have to Google a case where a man killed the first wife, "snapped" did his time, "rehabilitated" then went on to have a new relationship and then kill her.
You said the relationship was toxic and implied the victim was at fault. Look at one high profile case where Anna Sharp was killed, then Grace Sharp. Anna was pregnant. Grace was a toddler. The father killed Anna because she was pregnant.
Please be very careful. Don't get sucked in and don't believe he is all that innocent.
The only time homicide is justified is in self defense and I mean probable/,significant/immediate threat with requires significant intervention.
Domestic violence, and he is working on his "anger" and domestic violence in prison doesn't and I mean DOES NOT constitute as "I was defending myself and it was just an accident. "
Out of all the BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of people in this world that you can choose from - why would you want to go there?
Hell no!
Rehab or not - your life would be forever tarnished by his actions. You would constantly be in denial, constantly be worried around any of your family friends and children. Nope! Sorry. Murder is unforgivable and not slightly something you want in your life.
Cut ties
Move on
Stop living in that fantasy and wake up.
Do people change? The real question here is why would I be the one to risk finding out? What's the risk? Really high. Dv. Death. If your self esteem is so low, remember you would be choosing to put your children's mother at that risk. Do they even deserve that worry if he has changed? Without even getting to what would happen if it turns out he hasn't?
This is such a tough one because it can only go one of two ways.
I think people can be rehabilitated. I think everyone deserves a shot at redemption.
My parents had a friend when I was a kid, he babysat me regularly and I would often play with this daughter. He went to jail for manslaughter. He made a split second decision which resulted in the death of another man. I asked my mum how that made her feel afterwards and she said that she still wouldn't have questioned the safety of a child in his care. His poor decision didn't automatically mean he was a harm to everyone.
However - i used to go with my dad to visit him once a month in prison. Back when prisons weren't so full on, we used to take him tim-tams, shapes and smokes. I have no poor memories of this.
One day we went to visit with our little care package and he wasn't there. Dad talked to the prison people and we went home.
It wasn't until years later I found out that he had been released and then rearrested that day for crimes that were plentiful and not just a poor decision. My dad severed ties that day and I never saw him again.
Maybe prison rehabilitates, maybe it makes people worse. We can never truly know because its not a one size fits all. This man deserves a chance in society, but that doesn't mean its worth costing you or your children. It doesn't have to be a relationship just yet. Your children don't have to be involved. It can be very small steps over years of time.
Thank you for your response. Of course nothing would move fast and baby steps is a definite way to go.
Baby steps! Wake up to your self. Your poor kids don’t get a say in this. He took some innoecent persons life and you want to have him around your kids and be in a relationship with him. I feel for your kids, you aren’t protecting them at all. Go sit with the victims family and have a look at her photos and listen to the heart break and devastation of the family and wake up to yourself. You and your kids could be next. Go get help!
Why wait for him? Why are you invested in this one? What do you get now?
Because if you had a partner that had to go away for a decade you would agree to split. So you're getting something out of this arrangement, what is it?
I am not getting anything from this, why would I wait because one he was a friend before any of this happened, if I had a partner and he had to go away for a decade then yes I would wait for him, it is called loyalty. Some people still have that.
So you get to feel loyal? Like a good friend and partner? While not actually being one. Do you get to have a risk free love interest? You do get something. Nobody does anything if it doesnt make them feel good. Codependecy and your answer stinks of it. The second part (after you figure out what you get out of it) is to look at that and see if thats really true and healthy. 'Loyalty, some people still have that.' Making a rational decision for you life does not mean you're not loyal. Being one to say yes out of a million that would say no does not make you better or more loyal. There's probably a rational reason why saying no is the smarter decision.
Sometimes there's a fine line between loyalty and blind stupidity.
I'm not sure you know the difference between the two...
Loyalty is a great trait, yours is misguided.
Your loyalty is based on a maybe, a fantasy that may never materialise.
Putting your life on hold for a relationship you’ve never been in.
Blind loyalty.
Valuing loyalty that highly, over safety, going into a dv relationship is deadly. You always wonder why people stay, why don't they just leave if there's dv, why didn't they leave when they saw the warnings. This is why, your mind and the way you talk yourseld around. This is why it isn't a conversation you can have with yourself, you need to speak to a professional. Also, you dont know what you dont know about dv, so you need to get well informed on that.
Your loyalty should be directed towards your children.
It would be disloyal to your children to invite this guy into your life.
So by your responses it seems you have made you decision to not only wait 6 years for someone that may want you after he is let out. AND not only risk your life but the life of your child.
Run. Dont walk, run.
My ex was the sweetest. Dabbled in drugs. After two years together he became addicted to drugs. Did time for getting himself caught up in a botched attempted robbery (that's another story). Came out remorseful and ready to start our lives together and me being young and mind numbingly dumb I went along with it. Then our first kid came along. By now I was completely isolated. No friends, family when he allowed. Then I fell pregnant again. By now the violence had started. Just shoving me or pushing me. I blamed myself. I stayed. By the time I left with our 4 children over a decade later I truly believe if I'd have stayed even one more month I'd be dead. They start off sweet. They start of being exactly who you want them to be.
Run. Please run. God I wish someone had cared enough about me to get me to run.
Being charged with murder means it was premeditated, he literally planned out how and when to kill his ex partner and you want to risk your life and your kids lives for him? You’re victim blaming, and you’re completely blinded by the fact he is a cold blooded killer. I wouldn’t risk your life at all. If you choose to, perhaps give your kids dad full custody as you’re clearly putting them in danger
Look it is possible for people to put in the work and change.
But it is also possible that you didn't know the guy as well as you thought you did when he did it. And it is also possible that he is telling you exactly what you want to hear.
In situations of domestic violence the abuser usually looks normal (doesn't look like an abuser) from their own family and friends. They make people believe that they would never do that, that the ex is crazy or in this case it was a toxic relationship on both sides and he snapped because of her. Remember you have only heard his side, you don't know what he was like in that relationship behind closed doors. I speak from personal and professional experience.
It is entirely up to you what you do. But be careful. Make sure you watch his actions and not just listen to his words. Please make sure you physically see (with your own eyes) any work he is doing with these courses. He would need to continue them and/or counselling when he gets out in order for it to continue to be affective.
Educate yourself on all kinds of abuse so that you know what to look out for, I wouldn't want you to end up being the next one.
Also wanted to note. If you end up living with him after he gets out there is a chance child protection may take your child/ren. If someone reports you saying you are living with a convicted murder, that of a domestic violence relationship child protection will be looking into it.
I have seen (i work in the area) women stay with their abusers or drug addicts/dealers or partners who are on bail or have been let out and their kids HAVE been taken away.
I work in the mail room at a prison and i know kites are gold to inmates. But i also see multiple girls writting and receiving from single inmates.
I belive in rehabilitation but i also feel a current inmate is a red flag. They are still on there journey and dont think a relionship while incarnated will benifit you or your children at all.
You need therapy so you aren’t attracted to this type of personality. He killed someone he loved. You have a children. Don’t be so bloody stupid.
Question for you
Is he mandated to do these domestic violence and anger courses in prison, is it a part of his sentence?
Unless you have seen in writing from the court or prison or a professional that he volunteered to do these courses then he is only doing these because he has to.
I can guarantee you that once he gets out those courses will stop and he will be "cured". I can also guarantee that this is bullshit
My father "out of character" murdered his girlfriend.
Except it wasn't out of character.
The way he killed her, it was exactly the same thing he'd been doing to me from the age of 7. Probably earlier but I have blocked most memories from before my teens, and even after there aren't many left from before I moved out.
There is a massive difference between truly out of character behaviour and pure escalation to visible behaviours they can no longer hide.
How certain are you really?
Is it worth finding out?
Even if you learn the hard way?
Wow some of these comments are nasty!
I have lots of thoughts on this, but at the end of the day I don't know you or him only what you have said.
So here are some questions I would suggest you ask yourself.
If none of this happened and he was not in jail and had never killed anyone. Would you see yourself ending up in a relationship with him? Are you an option to him now, because of how limited his options are?
Why was he convicted of murder not manslaughter? Was it premeditated? Direct intent? Those are things that are taken into account when charging somebody with murder.
Is this the type of person you would want your daughter to date? Or a situation you would want your daughter in? Our kids watch our actions and who we allow ourselves to love, if you set the bar too low, she will also set her bar low.
This man, from what I have read in your replies has done some good things for you, but at the end of the day he took someone's life, you can't even begin to pay the price for doing something like that, he shattered lives, he stole her future. She may have not been a perfect person, but she will never get the opportunity to learn or grow as a person, her life has been stamped out.
I wish you so much happiness, we only get one life, live it well x