This post is about a child who had been abused when younger. Please be aware of that before reading.
I have a 12 yo girl who is in a small friendship group. She has her best friend plus 3 or 4 other kids who come and go and play. One girl(C) who has had a shit previous few years and had been abused has been making my girl and her besties life very difficult lately. If A&B want to just play together C will say things like you have to play with me I've been abused and then she goes and tells the councillors. This has happened a few times now and yes I have also spoken to the councillors about this. C is now saying things like you have to play with me or its exclusion. My daughter has a huge heart and is very confused as she knows that you need to feel for someone that has been abused but this is making her feel very uncomfortable as the abuse is being thrown at her only when C isn't getting her own way. I try and give my girl advice but she's feeling defeated, constantly being on edge incase it's thrown in her face again. I've told her that when C starts again that maybe she can get to the Councillor first and try and nip it in the bud. If A&B do just chill out together C will find D and they will stalk and follow A&B and say nasty things. My girl and I have huge simpathy for C for the shit things that have happened but it's hard and confusing to my girl when it's constantly being used as a way of getting what she wants. Please know I'm not having a go at ppl who have had abuse happen, I have 2 friends who were abused as kids and I understand its a very tricky situation but how do I help my girl to deal with this?
39 Replies
Ok? So maybe there is a bit of exclusion happening on behalf of your daughter. 12 year old girls are horrible. It's hard to believe your little cherub is capable of being a bitch, but they so totally can be! And they know exactly how to twist things around to make themselves look like the innocent party. Welcome to pre teen girls. I have worked with this age group and it was just constant bitching and carrying on as you have described. I also have a teenaged daughter so been there, done that. Please don't encourage your daughter to race to the counselors first. This is really immature and they have better things to do with their time, like dealing with your daughters friend and other kids that are going through a hard time. Your daughter needs to be inclusive of all her friends in the school setting, it is classed as bullying to exclude people in this way. If she wants 'alone' time with a particular friend then why can't she invite them home to hang out?
Why the fuck can’t a kid choose who to play with???? The counselor isn’t doing a very good job if this other kid is guilting kids into playing with her, then taunting the ones who don’t
What, you mean a counselors job is to magically fix sexually abused kids behaviour? All in a lunch break? Who knew? All of those sexually abused people seeing psychs and getting medicated for their entire lives and all they had to do was drop into the nearest primary school and see the counsellor!!
Yep. Sounds like A & B are becoming catty teenagers. Tell her to play with every one and if she wants something special with just 1 friend it can be outside of school.
Yeah I’m wondering why you think it’s okay she excludes this girl? And why you aren’t suggesting ways she can include her so that she doesn’t feel like shit that your daughter and her friend keep telling her to go away... 🤔 I think there are always other ways to let your daughter and her best friend have time alone but it’s also important that she has many friends and is kind to everyone... excluding people isn’t kind. It is a form of bullying.. and this poor girl is just trying to find a way in
It’s perfectly ok for your daughter and her friend to play together. Other children need to learn that not everyone wants to play with them all the time. Sometimes 2 people need time together. C sounds like she needs some counselling and needs to be taught some resilience. If I can teach my ASD children that it’s ok to have someone not include you in a one on one game/chat then this child can be taught the same. Abuse or not it is not ok to sit there and shame people for not wanting to hang out at that particular time. Gosh my friends and I had group gatherings and one on one gatherings in our primary school/high school years and almost 20 years later were all still mates. If they are saying to C every time she wants to hang out no and to go away I can understand C being upset but this doesn’t seem to be the way it is happening. 12 year old girls can be catty and they will be catty because of the hormones going through their bodies. What we as parents need to do is to teach resiliency!! Not everyone is going to want to be your friend when your an adult teach them this as children too. Good on your daughter for reaching out to you. Maybe you can reach out to the counsellor and ask them to get this child to stop emotionally abusing your child!! If we teach our children to accept emotional abuse at a young age then they are more likely to get stuck in a situation they can’t get out of as adults. Best of luck to you xx
Did you really just imply that this abused girl should be able to handle exclusion because your ASD kid can? Most kids with ASD don't even notice exclusion because they don't rely on other relationships to be happy. Abused kids do. Bad advice.
It's actually good advice to the child who feels excluded - if those people aren't treating you nicely, that's a good time to go and find different friends, people who do treat you nicely and you have a nice time with.
I was referring to the ASD/abused child comparison because there isn't one
Wow. You're comparing a child with social deficits and disinterest with a child that needs security and affection more than others. You literally could not choose more polar opposites. And if this girl is raising this exclusion frequently, newsflash, the girls are excluding her like bitch little children frequently. I completely agree that she needs other friends though because it sounds like A and B don't care to be friends with anyone else.
Sorry guys but 'disinterest' is a huge and often wrong assumption. I don't think she was comparing ASD and abuse as though they're comparable. What the poster said was that if you can teach one child in this situation you could and probably will teach another the same thing.
Right. Let's teach acceptance of bullying rather than inclusion. Good plan.
It's social skills
So you’re saying we should be teaching children that being emotionally abusive because of your past is acceptable? That’s exactly what you’re saying. Your saying that these girls have to accept someone all the time even if they don’t want to play with them at this point in time. My high functioning ASD does so know what exclusion is, he does feel it so before you jump to conclusions and assume Autism is the same for every child (which it’s not FYI) I have 2 children on very different ends of that spectrum. I have a child that used to notice that people didn’t want to play with him/that didn’t want to include him and I damn well taught him it’s ok and not everyone is going to be your god damn friend. This is what’s wrong with the penal system. Judges/Bleeding hearts constantly buy the “hard life/shit circumstances/previous abuse” for people’s bad behaviour. Instead of saying hey you gotta include her in everyone of your games. The hey it’s ok to not want to play with her sometimes. I have an adult friend who used to bring up her abuse. I mentioned that she needs to see a counsellor to ensure she has someone to talk to because I am not emotionally equipped to handle all the talk about abuse. I still talk to her and interact with her but on my terms. If this isn’t nipped in the bus she’s going to have more issues than a few girls not wanting to play with her, she’s going to be a very lonely adult and that’s not what she wants to be either. It’s not ok to emotionally abuse and manipulate people to get what you want from people. It’s also not ok to constantly exclude people but it is ok to say “hey not right now, I just want to have some time with *******” the girl mentioned seems to have enough cognitive function to understand social interaction and know how to manipulate people to get her own way. I’m assuming she can be counselled and taught how to make friends and play with people without using such tactics. Don’t ever tell me I can’t compare teaching my child how to handle situations that upset him to a child who can’t acceot being told they can’t play with someone. Because I’ve worked damn hard to ensure that my child understands that he isn’t going to be everyone’s friend nor is everyone going to like him over these years and I’m not going to just accept that everyone has to like everyone. Accept them and acknowledge them yes. But you can’t force someone to want to play with you, that is not cool in any way. Resilience is the way to go for our children and the sooner you all teach your kids to be resilient the better. ✌🏻
Cool. Let's teach kids to be bullies and tell their friends that don't like it to be 'resilient'. Easier than teaching kindness. And much easier to feel good about yourself if you're actually a horrible person because it's not your fault you're awful... It's the other person's fault for caring.
Isn't exclusion emotional abuse? We teach our toddlers to say, don't hit me, it hurts to other children. Yet we judge teenagers who say don't exclude me, it hurts? It's hypocritical.
Hang on though, not wanting to spend time with someone is ok. Nobody has to do that. It's not exclusion. being manipulative and inculding/ excluding, changing the rules and pulling strings is not ok. Whatever it is, each of these girls need help to sort it out and maybe they will be friends maybe they won't and either way, that's ok.
Having a child with ASD doesn't mean you understand and can compare what abused children are going through...
It must be happening a lot for it to be this big of a problem. Maybe the other girl needs to be encouraged to find other friends so your daughter and her bestie can just hang out together. Remember you only know what your daughter is telling you, there's always a few sides to a story. Could your daughters best friend be part of the problem, is she making sure its just the two of them or are they jointly happy to just be by themselves every day?
To be honest, if your girl was feeling walked over, the story you would be hearing would be more like 'c runs all of our lunchtime, we always have to do what she says, we always have to be careful what we say, she's always angry about something, she never lets us do what we want to do, she goes and gets d involved, I don't like lunchtimes anymore'
So it sounds like if anything, it's not that your daughter is being walked over, but that she's fed up and is now being a bit mean possibly?
Perhaps you need to explain that regardless of feeling sad for her, not being a true friend is not ok. she may need guidance to what to do next. Is she willing to give c another chance if she gets some help and tries? Is she able to be nice all day to c and make five minutes daily for one on one time with c, but explain that she can't spend all lunchtime with her while she is being so demanding. Is it best to decide that c and d stay away from a and b for awhile as they are bouncing off each other and ask the school to enforce that. I think you need to discuss first with your daughter and then take your suggestions to the school counsellor and make a plan.
Whatever it is I would be explaining very clearly to my daughter the level of respect and kindness I expect her to show to every single student at her school whether they're friends or not, and that problems can be solved and we won't always be friends all the time, but mean behaviour will not be tolerated.
You're probably right. This girl probably is manipulating things because she has been abused and is trying to now have control over her own life. And maybe she's handling it with the maturity 3a young girl with psychological deficits.... Because that's what she is. BUT... Voicing that she doesn't want to be excluded by her supposed 'friends' is very grown up. If she's voicing this a lot, then she's being excluded a lot. If your daughter feels guilty when she hears that, maybe it's because knows that she's being unkind? Honestly, I was a nerd who was on the receiving end of bitch girls... But there were still moments when I displayed bitch behaviour. And I was raised by God fearing parents and went to church twice on Sunday and bible study twice weekly. I guarantee you that your daughter isn't innocent. At that age, social skills go through a massive learning curve. Focus on your daughter's actions. How can she make c feel valued? Does she need so much 'private' time with a? It will not only help the issue, but also reinforce the values you love about your daughter that maybe aren't coming through to c in her actions.
Always try and step back and see the bigger picture rather than take in every detail your child has told you. The main details are-
A,B,C&D are part of a friendship group.
A&B are spending time alone together. To do this they must be avoiding C&D or telling them to go away.
C in particularly is taking the rejection badly and acting out emotionally. She is feeling hurt and hard done by and doing and saying what she can to be accepted again and to stop the rejection.
Your daughter is feeling guilty. You think this is because C is bringing up her past, but it could be guilt from not including C&D back into the friendship group.
If you're really concerned request a meeting with the school and the other girls parents to get to the bottom of it.
Ok first of all this child is an abuse survivor, I don't think you fully understand the trauma that and the impact that has had on her emotionally and to her self esteem.
You and some others here see a little girl who's using her past as a vindictive means to manipulate her friends.
I see a little girl who has learnt to cope with stressful situations the best way she knows how, she has probably come to associate speaking of her abuse with kindness, acceptance and reassurance. Hence why she brings it up when she's feeling rejected by her friends.
Secondly, the exclusive behaviour from your daughter and her other friend is not ok regardless of what else may be going on (and I do believe there's more to it). I was relentlessly bullied over the majority of my school years, the abuse from random students was bad but being excluded from people supposed to be my friend was so painful and i still have trust issues now because of it. So this needs to be nipped in the bud now, you don't want your daughter thinking this is an acceptable way to treat not just this girl but people in general, a skill she's going to need heading into high school.
If she's having problems with anyone, give her the tools to deal with it:
How to be fair:
"I'm hanging out with A at recess, I'll hang out with you at lunch if you like?"
How to deal when this friend is being difficult:
"I was abused, you have to play with me".
"I'm sorry that happened to you. But if you want to play with us you can't boss us around or be mean".
On top of this, teach her to recognise when she may need help from an adult to sort it out. I think having a meeting with the school and the other girls parents would be prudent too.
I'm really surprised to see the comments, god we live in a ridiculous world now, it's sad.
Kids are entitled to not being friends with everyone or having time to themselves, it doesn't mean someone else is being excluded.. or that said kids are bullied. We don't have to like or be friends with everyone. What a boring world that is.
I'd be telling your daughter to keep her distance from said friend. Are they heading to different highschools next year hopefully?
You know, I agree with you to an extent.
But there's a very fine line between just wanting some time to yourself and going out of your way to avoid or exclude a person within a friendship group which sounds like what's going on here. That sort of behaviour is so hurtful and really common in girls of this age group!
It really sounds like all the girls here need some support to navigate the dynamics of their friendship.
I can understand why the girls are going out of their way to exclude her though, it would be very emotionally draining for girls so young to deal with such topics and manipulation :(
Hopefully there's a school counsellor who can sit down with them all and try and find a way around this.
Absolutely, they are only 12 after all!
Many adults wouldn't have the capacity to deal with all this either and I can appreciate just not wanting to be pulled into a toxic friendship as well but I think it would be a good lesson in empathy for the OPs daughter to learn better ways to address such issues, rather than dealing with it with exclusion and avoidance.
I just think all the girls here need help to have more positive interactions because one girl here is hurting and one is feeling frustrated and confused!
It's a tough situation for all of them, I also think it highlights that abuse has such a widespread impact.
The exclusion came before the guilt tripping
No you don't have to be friends with everyone, nobody is saying that. These girls are/were part of a group, so they would have all been close friends not long ago. I think it's wrong to do what A+B are doing if its regular which sounds like it is.
Really really disagree. It's not bullying to not want to be friends with someone. Or to stop hanging out with them as much. People drift apart, doesn't mean they're nasty or bitchy. Girl A & B are just closer friends and choose to spend more time with one another. If that is what they want, so be it. You can't please everyone and even if girl C is feeling excluded, the school should help facilitate her to have better relationships though so that she can have more friends/be included more.
I don't think we can label these kids bullies for choosing to spend one on one time with each other.
Agree!
Agree with the ladies above that are saying the issue is maybe your daughter. It sounds like A and B are the nasty, manipulative ones bullying this other lil one. Teach your child acceptance and kindness... the school yard is not a place for one on one clicky friendships. I feel for C in this situation... maybe your child needs to be the one excluded and no doubt hers... and your tune would change.
If this situation was written from the perspective of C's Mum/caregiver we would be saying what little bullies A&B are.
That's exactly it though isn't it!
It all comes down to perspective, it's easy to sway the narrative when you're telling the story. I'd be willing to guess that Girl C would offer a different insight from where she stands!
Personally,
I’d tell your daughter to say “I don’t want to play with you anymore because you keep making me feel guilty!”
Or, tell your daughter to widen her group of friends.
Your daughter IS NOT responsible for someone else’s happiness. She also doesn’t need to include anyone she doesn’t want to.
That’s the way I feel about it, otherwise she will always try and please people because “I’ve been abused” or “insert any other ridiculous slogan here” you can’t please everyone, and why should she try to? Tell her to be happy doing her own thing.
I am the poster and this isn't about my girl constantly excluding the other. They all play together in a group that changes everyday. It's OK to not want to hang out with someone everyday all day but this happened when C doesn't get her way. If she suggests a game and the group isn't interested she says it. If my girl just wants to sit and chill then she's excluding. My girls little group are good kids but this is upsetting.
Do they ever agree on an activity she suggests though?
Wow @ the anonymous comments on the thread! Won't say it with their identity! To the poster, you talking about this shows that you care and are aware of the dynamics of what is going on. Listen to your intuition, I would teach your child to address it in a direct but thoughtful way. For example if C says you're bullying me or excluding me she can reply "This is not bullying, we have a conflict of what both of us wants right now." Or "I don't agree to do what you want right now." Also talk to your daughter about looking for something good in friend C and focusing on that as a friend. This could backfire though, making friend C want to be more involved. It seems like friend C is needy and possibly finds a heart string in your daughter she can pull on which causes your daughter to feel conflicted. If it continued I would encourage my daughter to step away completely, she is 12 and is not equipped to navigate or deal with complex emotions like this. I am interested to know what the counsellors pov is as from what you said they seem to be somewhat involved. I have a 12 year old daughter, we deal with similar situations, she isn't emotionally responsible for others 'problems' that she has nothing to do with. We each should be able to still choose who we associate but have to accept others choices also. Your child doesn't need to use or engage in co-dependant behaviours, I think in situations like these it's a hard balance protecting your own children while being mindful of others.
We lived next door to a home that was polar opposite in emotional support and circumstances. The boy next door would call out every day for my daughter to talk to him, he always wanted to come over to use the pool. If she wasn't going swimming or didn't invite him over or do what he said he would say she was being mean, selfish, ect. She would spend a bit of time defending herself too until I worked out what was happening. She spent many days befriending him, chatting with him and including him but it wasn't enough. Sometimes she was just not up to entertaining him, or didn't feel like being in his company. When they did he would often be competitive and put her down for things she had, while she was sharing with him! I would always invite him to parties, gatherings and he enjoyed them but still carried his own hurt and envy. He would watch from the fence, wanting what she had. There was a big disparity between them that was neither of their fault, it was circumstances - as there is between your daughter and her friend who was abused. It's one that she can't make up. Tell your daughter she chooses what she gives, but to do it honestly and with the thought to sometimes consider her friend, but not always. Good luck.